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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:11 pm 
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[<!--sizeo:2--> "font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--> <! :#2E8B57--> "color:#2E8B57"><!--/ >Ok, A bit about Jahmen a.k.a. GAMEMASTER.
I can proudly say I have played through every Myst Game without a single cheat!
I never got into the original MOUL game that came packaged as part of my Path of the Shell game, because by the time I had finished playing through the Path of the Shell stand alone, the MOUL GAME HAD SHUT DOWN! I join the shards that formed after, but my computer and Internet service wasn't inadequate enough to play. I started playing MOUL Beta I think it was early Oct of 2006 up until it shut down.

My real motivation and vision behind creating the MARKER GAME's Bevin in MOUL, Again is simple.
I adamantly believe that the Marker Quest and Jalak Dador Games created by Cyan were meant and intended by design for the In-Game Guilds.
And those Guild members were to develop them for the Uru Community of Explorers to play. By accomplishing this, the In-Game Guilds would demonstrate their ability to organize themselves, create and run In-Game fan created content. Once they had accomplished this smaller scale of New Age Creating of content the Uru Community explorer would be better organized to graduate to doing new age content. A baby’s steps approach. :rolleyes:
The Uru Community is in its infancy right now. The Community is trying to heal its self and re-grow its self again from the pain suffered from the MOUL, Last, shut down.
My own opinion of “In Cavern Guildsâ€


Last edited by GAMEMASTER on Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:50 pm 
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<! :#FF8C00--> "color:#FF8C00"><!--/ >Hello Jahmen,

I'm sorry I missed this post previously. I just discovered it randomly the other day. Sometimes the forum doesn't show new posts for some reason or another.

First, to correct you slightly . . . MOUL wasn't part of Path of the Shell, it was what URU was renamed for the GameTap incarnation. The version that came with Ages Beyond Myst was URU Live. By the point Path of the Shell came out, URU Live had LONG SINCE been out of online existence.

I see your desire that the guilds serve what people can currently do in-cavern seems appropriate given the current state of things, but a bit short-sighted given the potential and gradual crawl we are making towards user-made ages. Also, there comes a point that marker missions are only SO MUCH fun and you've had your fill of them (one, which IMHO is achieved by the calibration missions). In addition, Jalak is pretty, but I've yet to hear about or partake in anything particularly fun there.

It seems that you've created an idea for a concept to rally around. I don't know that this particular idea would have that kind of potential.

Having said that, I think your plan has some potential fun to it. Do you have a microphone? :) We could have you on for a segment or for the talk and you could expouse the virtues of this idea. I don't think it's a perfect idea / plan, but it's definitely something worth talking about. If you're comfortable like that, that is.

As far as coordinating such efforts, that is a bit beyond the scope of TCT. We are a news and entertainment podcast, so we report on things, not so much get the ball moving on things. Again, if you're comfortable working on-air, we'd be happy to feature this idea in the talk.

Thanks for posting and again I apologize for the delay in responding,

~J'nathus
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:50 am 
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Jnathus wrote:
<! :#FF8C00--> "color:#FF8C00"><!--/ >Hello Jahmen,

I'm sorry I missed this post previously. I just discovered it randomly the other day. Sometimes the forum doesn't show new posts for some reason or another.

First, to correct you slightly . . . MOUL wasn't part of Path of the Shell, it was what URU was renamed for the GameTap incarnation. The version that came with Ages Beyond Myst was URU Live. By the point Path of the Shell came out, URU Live had LONG SINCE been out of online existence.

I see your desire that the guilds serve what people can currently do in-cavern seems appropriate given the current state of things, but a bit short-sighted given the potential and gradual crawl we are making towards user-made ages. Also, there comes a point that marker missions are only SO MUCH fun and you've had your fill of them (one, which IMHO is achieved by the calibration missions). In addition, Jalak is pretty, but I've yet to hear about or partake in anything particularly fun there.

It seems that you've created an idea for a concept to rally around. I don't know that this particular idea would have that kind of potential.

Having said that, I think your plan has some potential fun to it. Do you have a microphone? :) We could have you on for a segment or for the talk and you could expouse the virtues of this idea. I don't think it's a perfect idea / plan, but it's definitely something worth talking about. If you're comfortable like that, that is.

As far as coordinating such efforts, that is a bit beyond the scope of TCT. We are a news and entertainment podcast, so we report on things, not so much get the ball moving on things. Again, if you're comfortable working on-air, we'd be happy to feature this idea in the talk.

Thanks for posting and again I apologize for the delay in responding,

~J'nathus
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:14 am 
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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><! :#FF8C00--> "color:#FF8C00"><!--/ >I see your desire that the guilds serve what people can currently do in-cavern seems appropriate given the current state of things, but a bit short-sighted given the potential and gradual crawl we are making towards user-made ages. Also, there comes a point that marker missions are only SO MUCH fun and you've had your fill of them (one, which IMHO is achieved by the calibration missions). In addition, Jalak is pretty, but I've yet to hear about or partake in anything particularly fun there. <!--colorc--> <!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


<! :#FFFF00--> "color:#FFFF00"><!--/ >I can't dispute the limitatins both marker quests and jalak games have for long term explorer appeal. Although with a Guild System of organized explorers making and perfecting them along with stories, I think the eventual bulk and quality of styled content could be equivalent of a New Age for the ever new explorers to run through. I personally think you under estimate the potential with which marker games could achieve in-game.
But the marker quest and jalak games was only the premise to start the Guilds System with and to get it all working. It is more about filling a void in the in-game IC game by trying to make good use of the in-game un-used Guild Pubs and members resources for the Uru Community to use now in real time. The Idea was about creating and using the un-used Guild Pubs and Bevins Officially with the marker quest, jalak and future games as the base premise theme to the explorers Guilds tasks within each Guild. I’m speaking to an in-game Guild System to fill the in-game void to no Guild IC roles i.e. the Guild Pubs and Bevins. I was trying to establish an in-game game IC Guild System to run and manage the Games using explorers that had gone through all their in-game content. New Age content as you know is consumed rather fast by the Uru Community of explorers, but the in-game IC Guild System was to create a steady flow of new small games content to ease the explorer blues that always followed New Age content.
None the less this Topic is mute, given that Cyan/ Guilds have nixed it and that I am to cease and desist and so I will.<!--colorc--> <!--/colorc-->


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:26 am 
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Dynomia@aol.com wrote:
<! :#FFFF00--> "color:#FFFF00"><!--/ >I can't dispute the limitatins both marker quests and jalak games have for long term explorer appeal. Although with a Guild System of organized explorers making and perfecting them along with stories, I think the eventual bulk and quality of styled content could be equivalent of a New Age for the ever new explorers to run through. I personally think you under estimate the potential with which marker games could achieve in-game.
But the marker quest and jalak games was only the premise to start the Guilds System with and to get it all working. It is more about filling a void in the in-game IC game by trying to make good use of the in-game un-used Guild Pubs and members resources for the Uru Community to use now in real time. The Idea was about creating and using the un-used Guild Pubs and Bevins Officially with the marker quest, jalak and future games as the base premise theme to the explorers Guilds tasks within each Guild. I’m speaking to an in-game Guild System to fill the in-game void to no Guild IC roles i.e. the Guild Pubs and Bevins. I was trying to establish an in-game game IC Guild System to run and manage the Games using explorers that had gone through all their in-game content. New Age content as you know is consumed rather fast by the Uru Community of explorers, but the in-game IC Guild System was to create a steady flow of new small games content to ease the explorer blues that always followed New Age content.
None the less this Topic is mute, given that Cyan/ Guilds have nixed it and that I am to cease and desist and so I will.<!--colorc--> <!--/colorc-->

Thanx Nalates,

As usual, your post is insightful and on target and more importantly, positive.
It provides suggestions and examples for me and points to the better ways with which I could have and might have better gone about it all.

I see once again that I have shot myself and my project in the head by how I bungled its introduction, promotion and most importantly, the overly ambitious nature with which it was about. Later when Irealized the scope of what I had done, I hoped for it to be allowed by the Cyan King. 8-)

In hind sight I tried to accomplish too much to fast in to short a span of time with out a clue to the protocols to be followed.
What I believe hurts the proposed project most and you pointed to, but I don’t agree with at all. The gross misconception most explorers in the cavern have about the Marker Quest & Jalak games being of limited content value to support a Guild System Project to IC explorer roles. Something I had been worked hard to correct and educate the general public through demonstration by providing a diverse number of Marker Quest & Jalak games that combined the use of marker quest text markers using my stated range of game categories to styles some I listed in the locked Myst Online thread post. This link to another post I made offering additional information to support what I’m saying. <a href="http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20214" target="_blank">http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20214</a>

I was attempting to address what I saw as an MOUL, again In-Game IC Guild Pubs creation by Cyan void to the game and its inability to grow along natural lines of progression in accord with the games D’ni cultural themes. The Guild Pubs introduced by Cyan at the end of MOUL, never had assigned in-game IC roles defined by the Cyan King. Cyan King reference is to the IC Guild D’ni history told to explorers of the social, cultural and political ruling class structure related to the King and the Guilds. In our case here, Cyan is the controlling in-game IC King who decides who, how and what is done by the IC 5 major guilds according the licensing agreement all have signed to abide by. This being something pointed out to me.

I was trying to get the in-game IC Guild Pubs and their Bevins functioning in MOUL, again by setting up a Guilds System with which explorers could play out roles and tasks appropriate to each Guilds name connotation obviously reflected in the D’ni histories written of each. I felt the Guild of Game’s Bevin could be but a beginning theme cog to the 5 major guilds eventually bigger Guilds System role of in-game IC play that would eventually grow out of it all. The intent was to make use of the official 5 major guilds natural in-game IC roles to attract explorer players as resources around and into my proposed Guilds of New Games Content Project theme. The Games theme was to provide the topic theme subject matter for the simple IC role tasks explorers would play within their Guilds. The use of the 5 official major guilds status was to be the catalyst necessary in building, establish and bring together my proposed IC Guild System. The major guilds official status being the means or glue for both to come together and help accomplish organizing the project to a more guaranteed outcome to success in a short amount of time. I felt it could bring more explorers together in-game and in cavern around a central small games theme in which to better anchor the explorers into the game. I envisioned within Ae'gura City public instance, small bands, groups or teams of explorers playing of the games or of those tasked guild explorers checking, testing and writing a game together. It all seemed a useful presence for the games growth by providing a flow of game entertaining public aivities attendance. Perhaps the servers are not equipped to handle such a level or number of players playing yet? I'm guessing of course.

At this point I already know what you're thinking and yes what I had proposed to Cyan as a all or nothing proposal was nothing short of Insanity! :lol: I see where it might have been a bit presumptious and Insanely overly ambitious, but ya gotta love my effort for trying such a crazy bold Project! :roll:

Oh you guessed again! :lol:
Also in my insane ignorance, I started using the in-game Guild Pubs and created Bevins for them to promote my Guilds System game project with. I honestly hadn't considered them at the time as Cyans, but for any and all explorers belonging to them to do IC playing projects with. :? I really believed what I was doing was a good thing for everyone and since I saw nothing happening with any of the Guild Pubs imagers as to an activities or plans, well . . .
I was since informed that the Use of the official major guilds was a no no and it seemed to upset some players. :shock:
Posts to my being evil and such was the clue. :twisted: I quickly learned that my use of the official major guilds and creating Bevins for them and putting their use into motion into IC in-game roles at the time or any time wasn’t allowed. :o
Whether or not my Guilds System Project "Games Theme" Idea could or couldn't be made to possibly fit in within any future planned Cyan use for the major guilds in some smaller capacity went un-discussed, but not unaddressed. NO! The Cyan King has spoken NO IC Major Guilds use.

For me this meant that MOUL, again IC guilds were to limp along as they did at the end of MOUL, last from having no Cyan King defined in-game IC use to their Guild roles for explorer fans to play IC Guild tasks with. Something I am unable to wrap my head around as to why would Cyan do that? That, meaning why bother to created the Guild Pubs and history to them and never define how IC explorers should use them or allow them to be used. :x It makes me insane that they sit there with an undefined use and aren't allowed to be used? I mean, the Guild sites that evolved out of them purpose to creating new game content I get, but not to equally use them in-game for IC use seems such a wasted resource. :cry: And so I tried to get it into use. I didn't mean to offend any in my doing so or step on toes as I obviously did. And for that I am truely sorry. :oops:

So the issue came down to whether or not Cyan/ Guilds were ready to commit all of the Cyan Kings 5 Major Guilds into an in-game IC player project or not, at this time or any time. The answer I got was a resounding NO! And so I respected that decision and deleted as requested, those Guilds Bevin named avatars I had made. In my own mind I see no reason for me to stay with the MOUL, again game, since there is not to be any allowed Cyan approved ability for an in-game IC Guilds System to be developed. Given that Cyan never could decide to release or decide upon the in-game Guilds system IC status for use, I don't foresee anything changing with within the near future with regards to this. I pushed and broached the topic to the explorers and Cyan. None seem ready to deal with or move forward with what I see as the games necessary step to a progressively successful IC future. I feel it is one of several unattended to, unanswered MOUL topics by Cyan that really hurts the games ability to grow along natural progressive lines from players.
ONE PROBLEM: MOUL, again for me remains an undefined Cyan project to intent. Is MOUL, again MORE? Or a prelude to Open Source Uru? It isn’t clear, at least to me, if it is part of the first step towards the promised Open Source Uru game i.e. licensed FCAL new age content with released tools and code or something else. This is in part my own fault and short coming as time doesn’t allow for me to stay current with the games OC, OCC or IC ICC Guild happenings or progress and their relationship to Cyan and the other part being could anyone keep up with everything unless retired with the time and desire to.
<! :#FFFF00--> "color:#FFFF00"><!--/ >P.S. In my haste to leave I have deleted all of my accounts avatars before thinking to transfer all of the games I had or explain that the Guild of Writer’s, Guild of Maintainer’s and Guild of Cartographer’s Bevins were not officially from or by Cyan and those who have joined them in believing this need to be told. Something I now can not go into the game and post or do. Perhaps those belonging to those Bevins can still post to their imagers what has happened. I am sorry for all the bad and confusion I have caused all. And so I will leave the game as part of my penance and leave MOUL alone.<!--colorc--> <!--/colorc-->


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:37 pm 
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<! :#FF8C00--> "color:#FF8C00"><!--/ >I can understand how you feel, but I don't understand leaving MOUL as a whole over this point.

As someone who has managed a project with many people involved on a volunteer basis, I do not give advice of "too ambitious" or "too shortsighted" lightly. The idea of puzzle based marker games and Jalak integration has merit. Turning ALL of the guilds into an interwoven tapestry of unification is just too far with your proposal.

Because we pre-dated the latest 'guild-development,' I feel comfortable maintaining who we are without the guilds, but incorporating them (to a degree) into our production. Perhaps the answer is (or was) that you maintain this idea, but keep it a more 'specialized project' that focuses on the goal of utilizing game resources for a more productive / on-going purpose. Railroading ALL of the guilds into it, was never going to work, but puzzle-based missions / projects in Jalak might have have become a nice fad... the kind of thing where those marker missions would be hot items passed around between explorers.

Either way, I'm sorry that you feel the need to leave MOUL altogether. That is a bit silly / dramatic a shift, but that is your prerogative. Fare well, wherever you fare.
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Last edited by Jnathus on Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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