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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:46 pm
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Location: Plymouth, UK
OK for anyone expearencing issues with Gametap and Vista (or just issues with gametap) I've put the Myst Online: Uru Live stand alone installer on the FTP, I'm not sure how Cyan feel about this and if they don't like it please could a TCTer delete it.

<a href="http://www.audio.thecaverntoday.com/stevecrox/myst_online_beta.exe" target="_blank">http://www.audio.thecaverntoday.com/stevec...online_beta.exe</a>

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:52 pm
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Location: More or less here, though that is up to debate.
I seem to be able to get the ultimate educator's, or rather in this case educated, discount. I get a copy of Vista Business for free through MSDN because of my major. Not that I'm inclined to redeem it at the moment, I'm still getting used to using OSX and really don't feel like relearning windows (Regardless of how similar they look now).

I've also heard some interesting tales about the over protective nature the security system on Vista seems to employ, going as far as to ask no less then five times whether or not you want to install something and on occation denying programs access to drive areas and resources in use or reserved for use by Vista. As much as I'm impressed and hopeful for the success of Vista, I'm willing to wait until they work out the "features".

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:15 pm 
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Title: 2011 Camaro 2LT - 312 horsepower - enough to pull YOUR wagon!
<! :#FF9900--> "color:#FF9900"><!--/ >All over the place, I keep seeing people equating Vista with OS X in look, appearance and function. While there are plenty of ideas integrated into Vista that have been previously present in OS X, I use OS X and Vista EVERY DAY and I see no "look alike" correlation between the two whatsoever and they also function very differently.
  • Vista has that aero glass look, Mac is all white (or brushed aluminum look depending on the app)</li>
  • Vista's aero has the semi-transparent window borders, the only thing semi-transparent in OS X (besides the doc) is the menus</li>
  • Vista's apps have the menu bar docked in each app, OS X has it separated and at the top of the screen</li>
  • Vista's right-click leads to many things, OS X right click isn't as universally used or useful</li>
I use many of the same applications between Vista and OS X, but in almost every case, those apps are OS specific (i.e. Windows version and Mac version), with different menu layouts and commands. Some things are fundamental, but MS Word in OS X is NOTHING like MSWord in Windows.

As far as the fundamental OS and its functioning goes, I really can't see how Vista's inclusion of transparencies makes it any more like OS X.

Vista is the evolution of XP, and as such, it resembles that much more than anything else.

J'nathus
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Last edited by Jnathus on Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:16 pm 
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Okay. I do agree with you that what I've seen of Vista's actual functionallity is far closer to that of XP and the previous other incarnations of Windows, which is what I really kinda of tried to imply with my comment about having to "relearn windows." I suppose what I really was trying to say in my comment was that Vista is endevering to be more streamlined and generally "flashy" in its presentation, much like OSX is. There are quite a few obvious asthetic differences, most of which you've already mentioned.

However there are some of things that run along the same vain of presentation; the 3D nature of the windows (which OSX implies with shadows and some optional tweaks, while Vista actually impliments), the intergration of higher end visual effects (In other words those which require actual hardware acceleration and the like), and some of the smaller effects (Such as the preview boxes on the Dock and Taskbar respectively, though once again Vista out does OSX from what I've seen though it may just because of the stylistic design differences between the two). These things are minor however, since given enough time the two were bound to start to look "similar" (I use the term loosely) simply because that's the way technology and the market is going.

In the end, however, what I really was trying to focus on was the fact that I'm not really wiling to install and use Vista untiol its been out long enough for the bugs to become apparent and be fixed. I may be a CS Major and love to mess around with code, but I don't have the ability nor the patience to try and fix all the bugs that new software, especially a new OS, will undoubtably have.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:30 pm 
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Title: 2011 Camaro 2LT - 312 horsepower - enough to pull YOUR wagon!
<! :#FF9900--> "color:#FF9900"><!--/ >I love contributing to a thread blow by blow . . . After all, tech is something I'm passionate about.

If you take a close look at Vista, it's just XP made a bit deeper. As far as streamlined and flashy, I'm not sure it achieves either (I'm also Mac user), but there are many features that I've become accustomed to in Vista that I miss in XP (the ability to control volume on a per application basis, media center folder structure - which Macs also do, improved photo management, seamless functioning of Windows Media Player 11 - which I use quite frequently now, a chess game I can actually win at, an easier to browse add / remove program area - seen below, DX10 / XNA future gaming compatibility, and much more that making a list of would simply take too long).

At this point, now that GameTap's latest client will run in Vista, I have no more excuses to run XP (although I was just doing without instead of booting into XP). I WAS holding out for Total Recorder, however it appeared that its lack of proper functioning in Vista was my incorrect configuration (or lack of going through the configuration steps).

As far as bugs, I have fewer at this point than I did in XP. Everything I want working in Windows is working in Vista (and one thing that wasn't working in XP now works in Vista).

The list of games that I've wanted to play lately that all work in Vista are:

Image


The full list of installed programs I have are:

Image

Miles has intimated that Photoshop brings his system to its knees, however I would deem that a 1 GB of RAM limitation . . . Photoshop is resource hungry and I don't think Vista is worth running if you don't have 2 GB of RAM.

So . . provided you have the hardware, Vista is a solid upgrade that as far as I can tell is a fully functioning / happy OS.

J'nathus
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Last edited by Jnathus on Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:23 am 
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Hi, as an early adopter of Vista and must say its my best *out-of-the-box windows experience* yet. I had minimal compatibility issues - all of which were automatically solved by Vista downloading the relevant updates for me (which is MS's clever strategy of releasing Vista to business 2 months before consumer).

Regarding Photoshop- I have no issues when I'm purely running Photoshop as the app consumes my 1 gig ram and pushes everything else into Virtual Memory (pagefile), then issues begin when I move repeatedly from photoshop to dreamweaver to firefox to skype and back - CPU load gets close to 100% due to all the swapping. This will all be solved with an extra gig of ram.

I'm entirely happy with the OS. I hope those people who still had Windows 98 in 2004 because it was *the better OS* aren't going to be the ones running XP in 2008 because its *the better OS* - it isn't. Vista is exceptionally good, especially considering its from Microsoft.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:50 am 
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Location: Plymouth, UK
I thought I'd chip in remember when everyone complained about XP with our staggering 128mb of ram (or 64 in some cases) what a memory hog XP was!

Vista is a little more intensive than XP, but my Little sisters laptop can run Vista Home Premium quite happily. For £400 she got an 80gb hard drive, 1gb of ram, and a intel graphics card good enough to run Aero. You can't get cheaper laptops in the uk (well I have seen a couple of £350 ones.) My laptop (bought about 5 months earlier) will run Vista, it won't run Aero but you don't notice any slow downs I spent £400 on that one as well.

512mb of ram for vista is like 256mb of ram for XP. XP will run, but not well it will be slow and irratating (my laptop came with 256mb of ram was awfull to use.) 1GB in Vista is kinda like putting 512mb of ram in XP. 512mb's of ram in a XP machine will make XP run smoothly but as soon as you start the memory intensive applications like Photoshop, Half Life 2 or MO:UL then you see huge slow downs and pretty much live in your virtual memory.

Now this is kinda where XP and Vista differ, Running Windows XP MCE2005 on my laptop the basic windows footprint (ram usuage) was 411mb of Ram so I had a little ram memory left with my 512mb's of ram (enough to run MSN or Word or something like that.) Vista Home Premium (what the big companies are 'upgrading' XP MCE2005 users to (XP Home goes to Home Basic)) has a much larger footprint on my desktop with nothing else installed was 1.1gb. So with a Gb of ram your already in your virtual memory files (this makes things slower)

However the reason I rank it as such is because when I run MO:UL on my desktop I am still only using 1.2gb of ram. Vista's memory management is incredibly clever I have struggled to use more Ram and the best I could do was 1.8gb that required Goldwave to be processing a podcast, HL2, Outlook, Word, IE7, WMP, MSN Messenger, a ton of sidebar gadgets, paint, Hyperterminal, Visual Studio C++ and Windows Mobile Device Centre syncing my MP3's. The PC ran slow but not that slow (for example once I maximised MO:UL that ran ok.)

So 2gb of Ram in VIsta is like 1gb of ram in XP. It should cover everything you want to do and not let your PC slow down or crash. I can't imagine a day when we will be having or needing 4gb of Ram in a home consumer PC but I'm sure it will happen.

In short if you have Vista and used to have 1gb of ram in XP buy anouther gigabyte and you'll get the same performance back.

Oh and a geeky question now what does your machine score on the Windows Expearence Index?

I'm a 4.1 its my processor letting me down (AMD4 3700) else i would be 4.6 to anyone using an Nvidia card my graphics rating went from 4.3 to 4.6 by updating to the latest Nvidia drivers its my understanding the current drivers are bodge jobs aparently a big software audit is going on there and in a few months time we should get something good.

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Last edited by stevecrox on Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:55 am 
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Title: 2011 Camaro 2LT - 312 horsepower - enough to pull YOUR wagon!
<! :#FF9900--> "color:#FF9900"><!--/ >
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So 2gb of Ram in VIsta is like 1gb of ram in XP. It should cover everything you want to do and not let your PC slow down or crash. I can't imagine a day when we will be having or needing 4gb of Ram in a home consumer PC but I'm sure it will happen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Except that I upgraded to 2 GB last summer before I was even considering upgrading to Vista because a few apps / games were starting to really feel the ceiling of running 1 GB (F.E.A.R. and Black & White 2 to name 2). I imagine 2 GB will become a ceiling before long as well, but my motherboard can't handle 4 GB of RAM . . . So, I guess next time I'll just go up to 3 GB.

My Windows Experience Index is a 5.0 because of my processor (the lowest scoring element). Everything else is higher, although the highest rated component only gets a 5.9.

J'nathus
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Last edited by Jnathus on Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:48 am 
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Title: 2011 Camaro 2LT - 312 horsepower - enough to pull YOUR wagon!
<! :#FF9900--> "color:#FF9900"><!--/ >Here's a fun fact . . .

This morning when I checked E-mail on my PC, it asked to reactivate.

I've only ever installed Vista once.

I haven't reinstalled, or reformatted . . . yet.

I have reinstalled video drivers a few times (lately to install a WHQL driver)

Windows update installed a new nForce 4 SATA driver.

So, it looks like that DESPITE the fact that Microsoft claims Vista is more tolerant of hardware changes, it will in-fact see driver changes as hardware changes. LOVELY!

*grrrrr*

J'nathus
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:50 am 
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Hmm thats the second I've heard of that. That would be a big bug in Vista that will need fixed. Funny enough I've done a lot of driver updates to my drivers but its never happened to me. Just lucky I guess when it comes to windows. I would report this to MS if I were you.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:19 pm 
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XP has the same problem tough, both my brother and my father had it. They didn't change anything to their computer drivers or hardware but on one day windows claimed that there have been to much hardware changes and that they should re-activate their product. That wasn't really a problem but it's quite strange if there's no reason to. Well, for as long as it doesn't happen to my computer it's fine (tough I had problems with my USB-ports the last couple of days and because I tried to fix it using system repair I damaged my anti-spam component of f-secure, but apart from that, everything is working fine again).

*feels proud he fixed his USB-ports and that made such a long post* [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:11 am 
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I just found out that my Aunt, an MS employee, get's the employee's discount: a whopping 90% off! (reasoning is: MS employees should have all the newest MS software with no penalty, so they just pay for the cost of making the box). And she's allowed to pass it on to family too, so Vista Ultimate here I come [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

Except it looks like I'd have to pay through my nose to put another gig of RAM in my laptop...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:01 pm 
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I was browsing around and found a fix for this issue from MS.

<a href="http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931573/en-us" target="_blank">http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931573/en-us</a>

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:20 am 
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Title: 2011 Camaro 2LT - 312 horsepower - enough to pull YOUR wagon!
<! :#FF9900--> "color:#FF9900"><!--/ >I installed that update 01/29/2007. Looks like it'd down to finicky hardware validation. Boooo [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crying.gif[/img] <!--colorc--> <!--/colorc-->


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