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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:47 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:12 am
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Hi!

I noticed that my comments about podcasting, audio files, feeds, and more cryptic stuff apparently weren't really understood well. I'm going to explain in a not-entirely-techy way what exactly I meant.

Firstly, I'd like to say that the explanation about what a podcast is, given on the podcast itself, was very good, and very accurate. I'm going to go into some technical details here, but I'll try to keep it simple.

A podcast is basically indeed just a list. Every item in this list is an audio file. (This list uses odd formats like XML, RSS, Atom, but you don't have to worry about that.) The list basically looks like this:

Code:
[b]podcast entry #1[/b]
Title = Welcome to our first podcast!
Audio File = http://blah.com/file.mp3

[b]podcast entry #2[/b]
Title = Second Podcast
Audio File = http://foo.com/bahro/blueeyes.mp3


This list is called a feed. (This example is somewhat simplified but it does the job.)

Suppose you make a new podcast. You record the audio file and upload it somewhere. You then make this feed, which you also upload; sometimes this feed is generated automatically so you don't have to worry about it.

Next, you would like to get your podcast listed on iTunes' podcast directory. When you submit a podcast to the iTunes directory, you have to specify the URL of that feed. The big iTunes servers will then load the feed, and get all items in this list. The podcast is now in the directory.

When you record a new audio file and add it to your podcast, this feed (which still is nothing more than a list) will be updated. A new entry for this new recording will be added to the list. The iTunes servers will see that the list is updated, and update the podcast directory automatically, so you don't have to re-submit your podcast to the iTunes podcast directory.

Now, you should know that iTunes is not the only program in the known universe that works with these feeds. There are several other programs that use these feeds. Suppose you don't like iTunes, and you prefer AmonResCoolFeedPodcastProgram (ARCFPP -- entirely fictional, mind you).

So you want to add the feed to ARCFPP. You open ARCFPP, click "add feed" and you get a window asking for the feed URL. Most websites have a link to this feed, so you can simply copy the address and paste it in that window.

But The Cavern Today's website does not have a link to the feed, and there's no way of finding out the feed address. If the website would indeed have had a link to this feed, using ARCFPP (or any other non-fictional program that does the same) would be quite easy.

(In fact, I could go to iTunes and select Subscribe To Podcast from the Advanced menu. I'd get a window where I can enter the feed URL. This would save me the hassle from going to the podcast directory, searching for the The Cavern Today podcast and then adding it.)

So... what I'm saying is: put the address of the feed on the web site so everyone can listen to your podcast, even if they don't use iTunes. Means even more visitors! Can't possibly be bad. ;)

My not-so-short mostly-non-techy explanation about podcasting and feeds ends here. I hope it's understandable. I also hope you learned something by reading this :). If something is unclear, please let me know and I'll explain in detail.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:03 am 
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Some ppl are more conversant in the basics of feeds (podcast and news) than I am, but I was read these comments this morning and I wondered if anybody wanted to post something about it here. It would be a good learning experience I think [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img]

We should learn from the End-to-End design principle of Internet protocols: keep the format simple, don't discriminate between potential uses. Specifically, an Echo reader program's job should be to parse Echo stuff (hopefully assuming very little other than a super-simple Echo XML schema) and pass the payload up to the calling application. The only way to stay simple is to have one implementation method, and the only way to be content-neutral is to quote everything. Anything else means we think we know exactly how Echo will be used from now until the end of time, and that's just ensuring we will miss opportunities to build new, interesting things in the future. We must be prepared for what we haven't yet invented. I want the ability of write a basic non-echo reader without deep thinking. I'm a lazy man, give me a CDATA element, I'll extract the contents and throw it to a display window. Give me encoding and type attributes, and I'm all set: <content type="holograph/animated-no-artifacts" encoding="bork-bork2"> will be ignored by my parser, putting a placeholder instead (something like this content cannot be displayed by this little program.)

R


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:22 am 
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Keeping things simple (KISS) is definitely a very important aspect when creating file formats and protocols. Another important aspect is flexibility: allow the file format or protocol to be used for a wide variety of applications without having to redesign it.

My mind jumps to RSS and Atom. There are quite a few differences between RSS 2.0 and Atom 1.0. The Atom 1.0 specification defines less elements than RSS 2.0; yet it doesn't lack functionality.

Another example, maybe not directly related, is the Alurio protocol (alurio is a chat system I've been working on for some time). Over time, the protocol has been simplified a whole lot, and made much more flexible. This makes implementing the protocol much easier.

We must indeed prepare for what is not invented yet. Flexibility is an important aspect here. An example is XHTML 2's <object> tag, which replaces tags such as <img>, <embed>, <applet> and a few other tags that include content. In XHTML 2, that "content" example would become "<object src="blah.holo" srctype="holograph/animated-no-artifacts">Alternate text</object>". Any web browser not supporting that content type will simply display the alternate text.

I have a feeling that I'm going offtopic here, so I guess I'll just shut up for now...

_________________
- <a href='http://amonre.org/' target='_blank'>stoneship</a> - amonre's personal site
- <a href='http://alurio.org/' target='_blank'>alurio</a> - next generation chat system
- <a href='http://mystblogs.com/' target='_blank'>myst blogs</a> - blogs by myst fans
- <a href='http://euromysterium.org/' target='_blank'>EuroMysterium</a> - the only European Mysterium!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:23 am 
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Location: Oak Park, Illinois
[img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img] I appreciated your explanation of how this getting the Podcasts etc ( in layman's terms so to speak) works amonre!

As far as what you and Ruby were discussing...it went so far over my head, it's on the way to MARS!!!

I have to say, however, this whole RSS feed thing really amazes me, especially when you click on the link and come up with all of those "<text > text>" thingies and knowing that it translates into actual VOCALS!!!!

Just thinking about it fries what's left of my little brain!!!!! [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:46 pm
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Location: Plymouth, UK
WE prefer really simple syndication, its easly, you can find the feed at <a href="http://www.thecaverntoday.com/rss.xml" target="_blank">http://www.thecaverntoday.com/rss.xml</a>

Why is this still going on? I'm getting bored

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:02 pm 
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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why is this still going on?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The feed still isn't on the web site. I'll keep bugging everyone about it until it's added. See <a href="http://www.thecaverntoday.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=75#" target="_blank">this thread</a> for details on adding it. It honestly is not difficult, and it'll make everyone (including me) happier.

_________________
- <a href='http://amonre.org/' target='_blank'>stoneship</a> - amonre's personal site
- <a href='http://alurio.org/' target='_blank'>alurio</a> - next generation chat system
- <a href='http://mystblogs.com/' target='_blank'>myst blogs</a> - blogs by myst fans
- <a href='http://euromysterium.org/' target='_blank'>EuroMysterium</a> - the only European Mysterium!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:16 pm
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Oh, shoot, oh cheese, errr I mean sheeze, you are ruining, I mean ending all of Ruby's fun...but ...oh well I guess all good things must come to and end? I mean end, of course its not a question, its a definite period on this thread...tee hee hee.

Couldn't resist ;>)

p.S. Mr. cRitic #1, did this make any better sense to you? Just checking to be sure you are still keeping a watchful and observant eye, [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]


Last edited by Ruby ODegee on Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:40 pm 
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Oh god, fine i'll ask Miles when i see him

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:04 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-stevecrox+Sep 13 2005, 02:40 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stevecrox @ Sep 13 2005, 02:40 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh god, fine i'll ask Miles when i see him
<div align='right'><a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=517"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Mr. Critic isn't Miles. Our Mr. Critic is a completely other individual, but ruby will take her seat in the corner now and be quiet for the rest of the day. She has made enough trouble for one day. Even Ann is getting annoyed with her. [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif[/img] [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif[/img]


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:17 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:34 am
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Yes Ruby, watchfula as ever *zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]
So you quite sure you haven't um well lost your marbles Ruby? hehe [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif[/img]
And no it made no more sense, well it sorta did but your fist post didn't...
*gets hit from behind with a piece of wood and is dragged off stage* [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img] [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif[/img]

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:59 am 
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<!--QuoteBegin-JWPJ+Sep 14 2005, 03:17 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JWPJ @ Sep 14 2005, 03:17 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes Ruby, watchfula as ever *zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]
So you quite sure you haven't um well lost your marbles Ruby? hehe [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif[/img]
And no it made no more sense, well it sorta did but your fist post didn't...
*gets hit from behind with a piece of wood and is dragged off stage*  [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img]  [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif[/img]
<div align='right'><a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=528"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Too bad about that stage business, the hook grabbed at me many a time too. In fact it grabbed me yesterday, and now....well below is the conclusion to the story...

Ruby is behaving herself until the release of Podcast2. She was forced, because she thinks the co-producer is completely tired & bored of the whole thing. She ended up having to apologize [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img] . He is just business, business, business, you know. ;) She always knew this. It makes CCN and The Cavern Today tick right along in the face of eder kemo storms, the manipulations of bad guys from Releeshan, huffiness & egoness on the part of wannabe producers and, and our own critics agreeing with me, errrr, her about losing marbles. LOL, tee hee hee. <ruby checks her pockets for marbles she lost year and years ago, and jacks and jump ropes too>.

But is nice to know you are still out there watching and observing from a position of dispassion. [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img] Keep it up. We will always know we can count on you. ROTFL. Ummmmm, when you feel like producing your own critics show let us know at CCN. :)

btw: if this makes no more sense than any of the rest, could it be it was intentional? Just maybe? ;) One of my fav stories of all time - Thru the Looking Glass. Love that mad hatter, the queen of hearts, a rabbit shaking with his watch.

o, oh, one mor thing - is there anyone out there who would like to line dance at the party on Saturday, because if there is I would like to start a new thread on just what steps we could do. During the anniversary no one was up to it. I mean we have everything we need, dance, two steps forward, two steps back, jump, turn and jump, dance two steps forward, two steps sidways,...

....ooops here comes the hook again. see u early sat afternoon to practice....oooo, its right ----eeeeeccccccck. Doesn't anybody out there have a sense of humor? ooooooooooh, now I am being warpedddddd into the next topic" Line danciiiiiiing MYst 555555party......


Last edited by Ruby ODegee on Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:59 am 
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Skype: Mowog1
Title: The Last Earbender
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Firstly, I'd like to say that the explanation about what a podcast is, given on the podcast itself, was very good, and very accurate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm flattered... and very, very relieved! I wrote that piece off the top of my head, and recorded it in full knowledge that it was going to be heard by people who are much more technically savvy than I. I tried to come at podcasts from the standpoint of a novice, which was amazingly easy, given that that is what I am...

For what it's worth, I'd had no previous experience with podcasting before this project tempted me into an active role, and even now, I don't intend to subscribe to anything, in favor of just downloading each new 'cast directly from the Cavern Today website.

Sure is a cool technology, though! [img]http://www.chirpspace.com/tct/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img]

Mowog

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Last edited by Mowog on Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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